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Truth or Consequences – But Not Both!

By Brian | November 18, 2009 | Share on Facebook

As we move toward the passage of a health care bill, the opinion polling isn’t necessarily getting more useful, but it is certainly getting more entertaining.

Our friends at the Associated Press do their best impression of Jay Leno’s “Jaywalking” routine:

A ban on denial of coverage because of pre-existing medical problems: 82% in favor

A ban on denial of coverage because of pre-existing medical problems that would probably cause most people to pay more for health insurance: 43% in favor


Everyone should be required to have at least some health insurance: 67% in favor

Everyone should be required to have at least some health insurance, or face a federal penalty: 28% in favor


All companies should be required to give their employees at least some health insurance: 73% in favor

Companies that don’t give their employees at least some health insurance would face a fine: 52% in favor

So, to sum up: require coverage for more people, but don’t raise my premiums and don’t penalize in any way those who ignore this new requirement.

Ah, democracy…

Topics: Political Rantings | 11 Comments »

11 Responses to “Truth or Consequences – But Not Both!”

  1. Janet says at November 18th, 2009 at 12:31 am :
    I can only think in cliches in response to this – there’s having cake and eating it too, and there’s lies, damn lies, and statistics. So many Americans are like Meg Ryan in “When Harry Met Sally” – they think they’re low maintenance, but they’re really high maintenance.

  2. Jeff Porten says at November 18th, 2009 at 2:17 am :
    False dichotomy, IMO. People like “mandatory” but don’t like “penalty”, which creates polls like the above only so long as you funnel everything through a private market. Only way to get mandatory is to impose penalties.

    OTOH, with single-payer or universal Medicare, or some such, you get all the mandatories you like, and you amortize the costs over the entire population. One-to-one correlation between increased benefits and personal fines go away — leaving an endless debate over taxation, of course, but that’s got little to do with the above.

  3. Janet says at November 18th, 2009 at 8:47 am :
    Agreed that what it says most about is push polls. But I still think it says something about Americans wanting everything but not wanting to pay for it, too. We chose very consciously to move to a town with the highest taxes of any local community (one of the distinctive things about CT is how much fiscal power is still vested at the level of the town – all 169 of them have separate fire services, school systems, zoning boards, police forces, etc – lots of autonomy, no economies of scale, among other issues) because we wanted the services those taxes would buy us (including great public schools). To continue my close-to-useless When Harry Met Sally analogy, I’m high maintenance but at least I know it.

  4. Brian says at November 18th, 2009 at 1:59 pm :
    It’s easy to blame the polling method, but I think the sentiment that’s out there remains the same. Jeff’s poll would say, “Everything’s mandatory (yay!); there are no fines/penalties (yay!); and oh, by the way, we’re raising taxes (boo!)”

    The real issue is that we, as a country, all seem to agree that health care is, generically, a good thing, but we also all agree that the busines case for it stinks – you either wind up with increased regulation, higher premiums, higher taxes, coverage restrictions, or some combination of the above.

    When you ask the real question: “Do you want health care reform given the inevitable financial ramifications?” then public opinion gets a lot softer – sometimes moreso than the humanitarian inside of us is comfortable admitting…

  5. Jeff Porten says at December 1st, 2009 at 12:36 pm :
    Wait, what? I can’t believe I let you get away with this for two weeks. Everyone does not agree that the business case stinks for reform; that’s the central argument of single-payer. The business case stinks only if you stipulate that we need to adhere to the aspects of our broken system whereby people who do not provide health care continue to profit from health care.

    I can think of a dozen ways to finance health care that don’t involve taxes, and if you call them taxes anyway, then you’re using Luntz language and he’s won the argument, not you.

  6. Brian says at December 1st, 2009 at 6:07 pm :
    There are those on the left who believe that the only way to fix the system is through a single-payer system like Canada’s — where we would severely restrict the private insurance market and have the government provide coverage for everybody. On the right, there are those who argue that we should end employer-based systems and leave individuals to buy health insurance on their own.

    I have to say that there are arguments to be made for both these approaches. But either one would represent a radical shift that would disrupt the health care most people currently have. Since health care represents one-sixth of our economy, I believe it makes more sense to build on what works and fix what doesn’t, rather than try to build an entirely new system from scratch.

    President Barack Obama
    — Remarks to the Joint Session of Congress
    — 9/9/09

    The statistics in my original post suggest that everyone agrees the business case stinks.

    The President has already ruled out the complete removal and replacement of the insurance industry, which is what you’re basically advocating above.

    And as for taxes, any money I give to the government so that the government can spend it on the country as a whole are either called taxes or function in the same way as taxes. Luntz can call them whatever he wants.

    You’re just concerned about the “Read my lips…no new taxes” moment that Barack Obama is steering himself towards in 2012…

    I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 per year, will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.

    Candidate Barack Obama
    — Dover, New Hampshire, 9/12/08
    — All three Presidential Debates (almost word-for-word)
    — First speech to Congressional joint-session, 2/24/09

  7. Jeff Porten says at December 3rd, 2009 at 9:14 pm :
    You

  8. Janet says at December 4th, 2009 at 7:18 am :
    We can add Grover Norquist to the classic example of the KKK as ways to demonstrate my principled convictions about the right to free speech.

  9. Brian says at December 4th, 2009 at 12:20 pm :
    My opinion is that 2012 is going to be an Obama cakewalk, and I

  10. Jeff Porten says at December 6th, 2009 at 7:52 pm :
    Oh, I don

  11. Brian says at December 6th, 2009 at 11:51 pm :
    Anyway, consider me completely in disagreement that he hasn